[php-maint] Backport requirements exception for some packages (php5)

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Ondřej Surý <ondrej at sury.org> [2013-12-16 15:10:27 CET]:
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013, at 14:28, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > On Mon, 16 Dec 2013, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> > > So this is not going to be a problem since jessie will have php5 >=
> > > 5.5.0 and
> > > wheezy-backports will always have php5 << 5.5.0, e.g. 5.4.x.
> > 
> > Nope, this comes from the rule that software has to be in testing before
> > it gets uploaded to backports.
> 
> That contradicts what you have said earlier:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-backports/2013/10/msg00055.html

 No, it doesn't.  Please don't mix things up.  The mentioned package
actually was in the archive, while what you suggest is a package that
never did hit the Debian archive, at all, and will be soley produced for
backports.

> and what the http://backports.debian.org/Contribute/ says:
> 
> "*To guarantee an upgrade path* from stable+backports to the next
> stable, the package should be in testing."

 That doesn't mean that this the upgrade path is the only reason, and
you left out the second part of that point:

| Of course there are some exceptions: Security updates. If your package
| had a security update you can upload a new backport *even if its not
| yet in testing*.

 *not yet in testing*, your proposed package never will enter testing,
no matter what, if I understand you correctly.  Please don't play twist
the words with the people running the archive, that doesn't help your
cause.

> > This rule ensures that package gets at least a minimum testing
> > before it goes to backports.
> 
> I don't think this has the required effect since you recompile the
> package with different build dependencies. The only reasonable way how
> to ensure the package has the minimum testing is when the maintainers do
> the testing.

 Let's say, the core part of the difference between the package in
stable or the former backport has received a minimum testing.  Of course
that doesn't relieve the backporter to do proper testing on their own
before the upload:  after all, the package will end up without much
further interaction on a stable system.

> So would it be possible to convince you if we:
> 
> a) check the tests (make check) results for regressions?
> b) (optional) provide (some) autopkgtests?

 Not really, unfortunately.  You are proposing to "backport" a package
from ... well, nowhere, so it's not a backport, at all.  It's not in the
archive, and you don't intend to upload or maintain it there.

> > And we don't plan to lift that rule.
> 
> Well I thought this is the case that's why I have asked if we could be
> granted an exception, but that email got ignored:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-backports/2013/10/msg00069.html

 Right, and while I'm sorry that it got overlooked that doesn't change
our position on the topic, you would have received the same answer back
then.

> so I have digged deeper and I haven't actually found the rule that would
> forbid it. But I don't want to play on the 'lawyered' note.

 Please see the second half of the rule you cited.  If we need to make
that clearer, please tell us how.  So far I can't remember anyone having
tried what you did.

> That's why I have asked you to step out of the box, since it feels to me
> that the general argument is: we have never done this before and we are
> afraid that it might break something.

 The general argument is:  it's not a backport.

 You see, a similar issue was also with respect to postgres: the
packaging team wanted to maintain all upstream maintained versions of
postgres, while we only have a single version in the Debian archive.  So
they started with apt.postgresql.org

> > But not within backports.
> 
> This seems to be said with really authoritative tone. Could we at least
> discuss this in the wider audience, so it doesn't feel like the single
> developer against the Debian backports overlords?

 Aren't we already discussing it in a wider audience?  What do you have
in mind? :)

 Sorry for the understandably disappointing response for you,
Rhonda
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