[Pkg-postgresql-public] postgresql 8.2 packaging

Gerfried Fuchs rhonda at deb.at
Sun Mar 1 16:52:46 UTC 2009

* Markus Wanner <markus at bluegap.ch> [2009-03-01 12:31:13 CET]:
> Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> >  This is what I wanted to raise, too. For a cleaner upgrade path I would
> > suggest that for whatever version we want to have as default in squeeze
> > release we also should have 8.3 still around at that time so that
> > someone can do an upgrade to squeeze, install the new (propably 8.5?)
> > packages and do the pg_upgradecluster.
> Interesting. For how long do you think 8.3 should stay in squeeze? Are
> you voting for providing minor releases (bugfixes) during that period?
> How long do you want 8.3 to stay in squeeze?

 I don't really understand your question. When a package is in squeeze
(as in the release of squeeze) it will stay in there for until squeeze
becomes obsolete.

> If I understand correctly, you would also vote for having 8.1 around in
> lenny for upgrades from etch, right?

 Yes, but that's not possible anymore because lenny is released.

> I don't quite understand the intention, though. If you only want to have
> it around for upgrades, you don't need 8.3 in squeeze at all.

 How would you sanely upgrade from your stable 8.3 package to the next
stable 8.5 package if the next stable doesn't have 8.3 packages around
so that you still can run it? The lenny 8.3 package will be obsoleted by
the squeeze release and it is not promised that it will be possible to
keep it installed and running. That's my point.

> You just migrate from the currently installed 8.3 from lenny to 8.5
> from squeeze and then use 8.5 bugfix releases, no?

 Doing too much things at the same time (dist-upgrading _and_ database
transition) is a cause for more troubles than needed, IMO.

> Also note that 8.1.16 is not any older than 8.3.6. And it's highly
> probable that 8.1 it's still in productive use by more people than 8.3.

 It's also highly propable that etch is still in productive use by more
people than lenny. Your point being? That people like to use old stuff?
Noone denies that to them.

> >  Please don't start the same discussions over and over again.
> Cédric asked, and I'm explaining the underlying problem.

 No, you claimed that you still don't understand what was pointed out to
you several times to you before, that wasn't an explenation, at all.

> I'm sorry if that's annoying you, but as long as Debian (or Postgres
> itself) doesn't have a solution to this problem, I need to bring it up
> from time to time, so you don't forget ;-)

 What problem exactly is this? Debian never claimed to support every
single piece of software out there, and it doesn't aim for it. There is
nothing to forget, besides from forgetting what was pointed out to you
before ...

> > Debian doesn't prevent users from doing it that way at all, as you
> > are the best example for that.
> As stated by Martin and yourself, Debian wants to encourage people to
> upgrade between major releases.


> It does so by not maintaining older major releases of Postgres, thus
> not shipping security and other fixes

 Uhm, why should one ship security and other fixes for stuff that isn't
part of the distribution? Your reasoning is absolutely out of any
reasonable way.

> which is crucial for productive use. That's what leads me to say that
> Debian "prevents" users from doing it that way.

 So you claim that Postgres wouldn't ship security and other fixes,
preventing users from doing it that way? Because if you word it like
that you make it sound it's only Debian's job to do so, for completely
everything that's available out there.

 Again, you depend on volunteer work. Again, if you really feel you are
in the position to request that thing you should contract someone to do
it and not tell others what they should do in their volunteered time. If
you contract someone to do so feel free to rant against them if they
don't fulfill your wishes - but please stop requesting stuff from people
that try to do their best in their free time and get things done in a
way that has a proper effort<->benefit ratio for most users. From what I
have read you depend on it for professional environment so it's up to
you to either take what you get for free or pay someone to do things the
way you feel is needed for your income.

 So long,

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