[Reportbug-maint] Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org

Helge Kreutzmann debian at helgefjell.de
Sun Aug 28 12:35:11 UTC 2011

this is for the bug log only, as we seem to have a communication
problem and I don't want to heat it up nor cause more shouting, just
clarify some statements.

On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 09:58:10AM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 07:48, Helge Kreutzmann <debian at helgefjell.de> wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:20:35PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:59, Sandro Tosi <morph at debian.org> wrote:
> >> > else we can't do anything but close this report.
> >>
> >> Doing it now. There was no action on this bug since more that 2 years,
> >> we can't solve it by ourselves and we are not able to push it forward
> >> "upstream". Please reopen when (and only if) you got a positive reply
> >> from Alioth maint on a way to let us report bugs to them.
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
> > Currently I cannot (in the technical sense) contact them: see alioth
> > bug 313213. And from reading the bug log of reportbug i'm not alone in
> > wishing to have the feature.
> Once again, there's NOTHING technical to do for this bug (for your
> side): you just need to coordinate the effort with alioth team. You
> don't wanna do it? that's ok, don't expect us to do that then. Stop
> spreading FUD over it.

a) I'm perfectly fine that you don't want to do something (this bug is
   already "wontfixed") [2]

b) I cannot do something about it atm (see above), 

c) I'm not spreading Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt. Please be specific if
   you issue something like this. 

> > This is already "wishlist" and "wontfix", so why are you so eager to
> > close ist, even though it is clearly valid and wanted? (closing ==
> > hiding form users). [1]
> *eager*? I waited TWO years for you to do anything about it, and you
> fail at it. So if in TWO years (oh even more since you opened this
> bug) you weren't able to do any single step forward, than it's your
> problem, for sure not ours.

a) Ok, "eager" is not the right word. I'm not a native speaker. Maybe
   "interested" is better.

b) I never claimed that you had a problem. I filed a wishlist bug,
   yes, in 2004. So of course it was/is "my" problem with the software
   named "reportbug".

c) There are problems where something can be done, some others were a
   resolution takes some time. Have a look at e.g. #49149, which was
   opened in 1999, and was just recently resolved. It was "wontfix" 
   for quite some time as well.

> > I'm in no way implying this is (easy) to fix, so I'm perfectly fine
> > with "wishlist" and "wontfix".
> You want it fixed? Do something about it! else, this bug will remain
> closed until YOU find someone that will commit to work on it.

As Debian maintainer and user since quite some time (guess around 2002
I started) I always loved the "not hide problems" mantra [3]. Even if
the parties involved do not agree, everybody can read about it and
form his/her own opinion. So far I haven't understood this as " ...
only if some party agrees to work on it", and I'm rather disappointed
that this interpretation is possible.

> > [1] I used to maintain a package where I was unable to reproduce the
> >    bug (missing hardware) and the submitter no longer had the
> >    hardware. Well, I tagged it "unreproducible" but did not close
> >    it. It was not nice (everybody likes small bug counts, I guess),
> >    but it was honest - the bug probably was still there (upstream was
> >    pretty dead and I wanted to debug it).
> you are in NO position to try and teach me how to handle bugs.

I'm not teaching you anything. I'm explaining how *I* handled that
specific bug.

And finally it would be great if everybody involved could discuss the
issue at hand, using the appropriate Debian guidelines and procedures
and not assuming someone to be "superior" and "inferior"; "teacher" and
"student". This just causes anger (at least on my side) and does not
help resolving the issue at hand, i.e. be productive.



P.S. Even though I'm quite disappointed please note that I'm not
     reopening this bug atm.

[2] According to http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer
           This bug won't be fixed. Possibly because this is a choice
	   between two arbitrary ways of doing things and the
	   maintainer and submitter prefer different ways of doing
	   things, possibly because changing the behaviour will cause other,
           worse, problems for others, or possibly for other reasons.

[3] http://www.debian.org/social_contract.en.html No. 3
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian at helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/
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