[Vmdebootstrap-devel] Bug#804315: Namespace issues

[Michael .]

>No, in the Debian project, no team has exclusive rights over package
>namespaces - filename conflicts are different. Namespacing should be
>consistent with the purpose of the package to avoid confusion.
>live-build-ng is the next generation of build tool for live images. The
>name is appropriate.

Based on the so called fact, that has yet to be proven, that Debian Live is
not an official Debian project you do not have the right to take a name and
use it. Namespace is an identifier, if you use a namespace already in use
and claim it as your own you are adding to confusion.

>He just did. Iain speaks as part of the debian-cd team. The debian-cd
>team deprecated live-build and have been looking for a replacement since
>before the Jessie release. I made a set of changes which underpin that
>support at DebConf15. Iain developed the code based upon that to
>deliver the missing support which is required by the debian-cd team.
>Job done. Well done, Iain.

I'm sorry I don't see a link to any list or meeting minutes that even
remotely indicate this is an official Debian directive. All I see is a
couple of people who have been rude, uncompromising, post something they
cannot or will not show evidence for when asked. Good job Iain and Neil,
how to win friends and influence people, job well done.

>Correct.

So you admit to being intractable!

>What has happened here is that the debian-cd team have finally found a
>solution to the provision of necessary support which has been lacking
>from the debian-live project for an inordinate amount of time.

Yet the Debian CD webpage points directly to Debian Live iso images as
official images even though you or Iain have said they are not official.
You haven't found a solution, you haven't even got a Live iso image listed
on the official Debian cd site. If the Debian CD team truly believe that
things have been lacking in Debian Live "for an inordinate amount of time"
one would think the people involved in the Debian CD team would have
communicated with the Debian Live team and collaboratively worked with them
to fix the issues. This brings me back to a previous point, if their has
been communication between Debian and Debian Live about any of this where
is it? If it is not available for public viewing, as is all other Debian
correspondence and decision making as far as I am aware the only conclusion
that can reasonably be made is that a small number of people have
deliberately taken it upon themselves to hijack Debian Live without the
Debian Live team even knowing it is happening. All I have asked for is
proof, it is very telling that you have been unable to show it. Is this
because it doesn't exist?

This is just another problem that is making me consider Devuan as a viable
alternative to Debian. Debian's decision making processes used to be open
and public, this most certainly appears to be behind closed doors.

On 9 November 2015 at 20:17, Neil Williams <codehelp at debian.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 11:18:32 +1100
> "Michael ." <keltoiboy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >There is no namespace issue, we are building on the existing
> > >live-config
> > and
> > >live-boot packages that are maintained and bringing these into
> > >Debian as native projects. If necessary, these will be forks, but
> > >I'm hoping that won't have to happen and that we can integrate these
> > >packages into Debian and continue development in a collaborative
> > >manner.
> >
> > Actually there is and I think any person who works in a legal capacity
> > would verify that.
>
> No, in the Debian project, no team has exclusive rights over package
> namespaces - filename conflicts are different. Namespacing should be
> consistent with the purpose of the package to avoid confusion.
> live-build-ng is the next generation of build tool for live images. The
> name is appropriate.
>
> > With regards to collaboration, considering this is the first many
> > people have heard of this it seems to me you have not gone out of
> > your way to integrate people who have been working on these packages
> > into your project. As I said in my previous response to the Debian
> > Live list (which btw last time someone used the word Debian in a
> > unofficial capacity (Debian-Mulitmedia) they were asked to stop I
> > haven't seen any requests like this to the Debian Live mailing list
> > as yet) it would have been good if "instead of starting a new project
> > the group from the new project would be much better off assisting
> > with an already well established project
> >
> > >live-build has been deprecated by debian-cd, and live-build-ng is
> > >replacing it. In a purely Debian context at least, live-build is
> > deprecated.
> > >live-build-ng is being developed in collaboration with debian-cd and
> > >D-I.
> >
> > Just out of interests sake can you provide proof of this?
>
> He just did. Iain speaks as part of the debian-cd team. The debian-cd
> team deprecated live-build and have been looking for a replacement since
> before the Jessie release. I made a set of changes which underpin that
> support at DebConf15. Iain developed the code based upon that to
> deliver the missing support which is required by the debian-cd team.
> Job done. Well done, Iain.
>
> > You seem to be very intractable. No discussion, no change of heart,
>
> Correct.
>
> What has happened here is that the debian-cd team have finally found a
> solution to the provision of necessary support which has been lacking
> from the debian-live project for an inordinate amount of time.
>
> > not willing to discuss anything with people like Daniel who have been
> > doing this for years. If there has been correspondence from any part
> > of Debian and the team who are working on Debian-Live that shows this
> > is not something new and out of the blue I'll be very surprised.
>
> It's taken long enough already. There is no point waiting when the code
> is now working.
>
> --
>
>
> Neil Williams
> =============
> http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
>
>
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