[Vmdebootstrap-devel] Bug#804315: Bug#804315: Namespace issues

[Michael .]

>See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/experimental-live/. These are far too
>experimental currently for public consumption and so not listed on the
>website.
2 things. 1st,  it looks like that page popped up yesterday.
2nd, if they are experimental they are absolutely no good in any way shape
or form for people who want a reliable system.

>Communication was attempted and failed. Serious problems include:
>#718225: live-build should authenticate files it downloads (from 2013)
>#731709: support uefi (from 2013)
>Neither of these issues have been fixed.
Now we are getting somewhere. How many times do you need to be asked
something before you are willing to provide the evidence being sought? Did
you provide any patches to get fix any of the issues you speak of?

>In person at DebConf meetings and on the BTS.
Links please?

>vmdebootstrap has been a work in progress for a good while now, and Daniel
>at least was aware of this. It would appear this was not communicated to
the
>team.
And you were somehow incapable of posting to the Debian Live mailing list?

>Updates on the Debian Trademark Policy will also be available soon to help
>clarify what is and is not "Official Debian".
To little to late I'm afraid. You see the problem is you come out with
comments that you cannot backup, now you have to "update" a policy so you
appear to be in the right.

>This is by no means normal for Debian, the problem here is that
>communication was one sided where we did not see any progress on the issues
>that were affecting the official live images and so we've ended up here.
So the images created by the Debian Live team are official.
The problem here is the way you and your team have gone about this. Closed
door discussions about a project you personally were not a part of that is,
for all intents and purposes, an official part of Debian until you or
someone else can "update" a policy to force it out of Debian. Do you not
see why people are angry with this.

You and your team have done Debian a huge disservice the way you have gone
about this. If this is how Debian works now I'm going to have to seriously
consider my proselytising on its behalf.


On 9 November 2015 at 21:17, Iain R. Learmonth <irl at debian.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 08:47:53PM +1100, Michael . wrote:
> >    Yet the Debian CD webpage points directly to Debian Live iso images as
> >    official images even though you or Iain have said they are not
> >    official. You haven't found a solution, you haven't even got a Live
> iso
> >    image listed on the official Debian cd site.
>
> See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/experimental-live/. These are far
> too
> experimental currently for public consumption and so not listed on the
> website.
>
> >    If the Debian CD team
> >    truly believe that things have been lacking in Debian Live "for an
> >    inordinate amount of time" one would think the people involved in the
> >    Debian CD team would have communicated with the Debian Live team and
> >    collaboratively worked with them to fix the issues.
>
> Communication was attempted and failed. Serious problems include:
>
>  #718225: live-build should authenticate files it downloads (from 2013)
>  #731709: support uefi (from 2013)
>
> Neither of these issues have been fixed.
>
> >    This brings me back
> >    to a previous point, if their has been communication between Debian
> and
> >    Debian Live about any of this where is it?
>
> In person at DebConf meetings and on the BTS.
>
> >    If it is not available for
> >    public viewing, as is all other Debian correspondence and decision
> >    making as far as I am aware the only conclusion that can reasonably be
> >    made is that a small number of people have deliberately taken it upon
> >    themselves to hijack Debian Live without the Debian Live team even
> >    knowing it is happening.
>
> vmdebootstrap has been a work in progress for a good while now, and Daniel
> at least was aware of this. It would appear this was not communicated to
> the
> team.
>
> >    All I have asked for is proof, it is very
> >    telling that you have been unable to show it. Is this because it
> >    doesn't exist?
>
> Updates on the Debian Trademark Policy will also be available soon to help
> clarify what is and is not "Official Debian".
>
> >    This is just another problem that is making me consider Devuan as a
> >    viable alternative to Debian. Debian's decision making processes used
> >    to be open and public, this most certainly appears to be behind closed
> >    doors.
>
> This is by no means normal for Debian, the problem here is that
> communication was one sided where we did not see any progress on the issues
> that were affecting the official live images and so we've ended up here.
>
> Thanks,
> Iain.
>
> --
>
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