[Yaird-devel] Bug#457177: Bug#457177: Bug#457177: keep yaird out of Testing

[Sven Luther]

On Sun, Dec 23, 2007 at 09:55:41AM +0100, Andreas Barth wrote:
> * Sven Luther (sven at powerlinux.fr) [071222 19:41]:
> > Andreas, face it, Max speaks as a strong supporter of initramfs-tools,
> > the concurent of yaird, and has shown real antagonism and agressivity
> > toward yaird since the begining of the initrd->initramfs migration.
> 
> Please avoid dragging this discussion from technical issues into
> personal issues and speculations. This doesn't help, and this is the
> last mail of this kind which will get any answer from me.

Why ? It was already at the non technical level. And as said, the
current sad remainders of the kernel team have proven they cannot
distinguish technical issues from personal ones. 

Please look at : #439006 for example, which is of more import than this
sad anti-yaird warfare.

> I've discussed this with a long-term kernel team member, and he agrees

Care to give names ? Why this anonimity ? Or maybe he doesn't stand
behind his words ? 

> that yaird is not keeping up for quite some time, and is a significant
> source of bug reports for the kernel team. It also is true that maks is
> opposing yaird, but that is for good technical resons which is fair and
> accepted behaviour.

Maks has been opposing yaird since the start, and not because of good
technical reasons, but because he disliked it, and was involved heavily
with initramfs-tools.

> This all shouldn't prevent the yaird team to get back to speed, and keep

There is no yaird team, i agree with the assesment that yaird is badly
maintained and i realized this back in erkelenz almost two years ago.
But then, the technical committee supported Jonas over good technical
reasoning, and this brang the first step of the witch-hunt against me.

I find it over-hypocrit that when i was agressively attacked back then,
for something that is basically acceptable from maks now. But no, debian
is ride of me now, and then all is well and everything is acceptable,
right ? 

> up with the kernel. But as there doesn't seem any use case where we
> definitly need yaird, I think the kernel team can ask for this
> significant source of bug reports to be marked as seriously broken.

What kernel team ? The same which rejected the PS3 and efika patches
just because i was working on them, without even a hint of technical
ground, and without even replying to my argumentation ? The same one who
expulsed me of their team, just because i wanted to get our users the
support they deserve, and which we all (you included) promised to make
our priority when we agreed to the social contract ? Sure, it seems most
DDs don't care anymore about the social contract, but still ...

This is exactly the same thing which is happening here, there is no
discussion, there is no a witch-hunt like, instead of a technical
discussion at the bug report level, and a constructive and helpful
proposal to help out.

It is an approach of rejection and agression, which is the kind of
things which leads debian into social disputes over social disputes
times and times again.

And saying : let's ignore the social mess, and keep only the technical
info, is like hiding your head in the sand, and hoping the problems will
go away.

> It is the responsibility of the yaird team to fix that. And "fix that"
> really involves "getting to speed", which is more than just fixing
> individual bugs, but e.g. pre-activly fixing things not filled yet, or
> getting back an active upstream. Debian isn't the reservoir for outdated
> broken software.

How can they fix the issue, if they are not informed of these issues
with the proper procedures ? I mean, if there is only one RC bug about
those issues, this means that mostly it is not really such a big
problem, no ? 

> Cheers,

Yeah, cheers, i see nothign cheerfull about this, and you are again
seeing pasively while iniquity is happening. Social problems don't go
away if you ignore them, they only fester and become worse.

Sadly,

Sven Luther