Fwd: Re: Wayland in Debian / About Window Buttons and Menu Bars

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 2014-04-17 at 00:34 -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
> I thought Wayland/Weston would leave those parts to the desktop and
> stay out of mission critical stuff?? Am I drinking the Kool Aid here ?

IMHO you're to uncritically and I go over board with my pathetic
opinion. Between our different opinions there's much space for
speculations. Isn't space for speculation alone not already scary?

The first thing I heard was, that Wayland should be a replacement for X,
then a while later I heard that Wayland should replace X and the WMs for
the DEs, at same the time when at least one major DE decided to drop
window buttons, menu and tool bars and when another major DE made
Wayland a hard dependency.

I can't do a dist-upgrade for my stable-unstable-testing mixed Debian
with KDE 4 installed, since Xorg would be removed. I need to do an
upgrade.

For Arch Linux I have to downgrade some GNOME apps, I'm using them
without having GNOME installed. Evolution does misbehave and for Gedit
and GNOME calculator upstream dropped the title bars with the window
buttons, the menu and tool bars. I'm using Xfce4 and Jwm on Arch, resp.
for Debian I'm not really using KDE 4 and for Arch I'm not really using
Xfce4, for Debian and Arch I prefer to use Jwm.

IOW for my Debian install Wayland already does cause issues and for my
Arch install it's not Wayland, but the design for GNOME apps.

"There are some window managers not implementing EWMH properly (Xfce's
window manager) and you will get a redundant title bar on top of the
header bar." -
https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2014-April/035904.html

https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2014-April/035915.html

"> The GTK+ header bar is based
> on UX design, not anything to do with Wayland. An GTK+ application can
> draw client-side decorations with or without a header bar.

That's true too, but client side decoration on Wayland was the main
reason to change the design guidelines." -
https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2014-April/035917.html