[Fwd: Re: A loser at ATT]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 6/9/14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Du, 08 iun 14, 16:44:06, Ric Moore wrote:
>> You SURE you got that right?? Otherwise, what is the point
>> of having an OT list to relieve the stress on the normal tech
>> support list? Please note I am
>> posting to and you are replying to d-community-offtopic
>>  :) Ric

Ric, that you for your rational and reserved nature here.

We are visibly seeing here, the clear beginning of the
descent predicted by some of us to result from that
all powerful, almighty savior of peace, prosperity, good
will, good behaviour, decency, morals, ethics,
righteousness, family, our government, the NSA and,
most importantly, protector of "the Debian way"!

Yes people, you guessed it, The Debian COC !


> The point of -offtopic is to have place for the Debian Community to
> discuss non-Debian stuff. The Debian Code of Conduct[1] still applies.
>
> [1] http://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct.en.html
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei

We have been warned!

Ralph, do NOT even THINK about pointing out trolls and
impersonators!

If you even go _near_ that territory, you MUST display a bunch
of empathy, love and compassion for the victims, and emphatic
and severe denouncing of each specific item of bad behaviour.

Your denouncement dissertation MUST run at least 3 metric A4
pages or 2000 words, whicever is longer.

Speling corections WILL NEVER BE TOLLERATED under threat
of CLOSURE of these COMMUNITY mailing lists!

YOU WILL COMPLY!

DO _NOT_ REPLY AND _DO_ NOT EVEN _SQUEAK_ IN RESPONSE!


> From: Holger Levsen <holger at layer-acht.org>
> To: d-community-offtopic at lists.alioth.debian.org
> Cc: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf at alice-dsl.net>
> Subject: Re: A loser at ATT
> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 12:01:47 +0200
> Mailer: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/3.14-0.bpo.1-amd64; KDE/4.8.4; x86_64; ; )
>
> Hi Ralf,
>
> On Sonntag, 8. Juni 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> On Sun, 2014-06-08 at 05:58 +0000, Jerry Stuckle seemingly did not
>> wrote: [snip]
>>
>> Jerry's address isn't (at)outlook.com, it's (at)attglobal.net.
>
> I'm sad to see this as your only comment on that disgusting post (given the
> context of debian-user@ in the last days).

In what way did Ralph FAIL to abide by
the almighty Debian COC???


> I think this has nailed it for me to close this list (debian-offtopic) now.
> If
> you want to have offtopic discussions, go to the next kindergarden, pub or
> whatever you fancy, but I dont see the point of this alioth list anymore.
>
> cheers,
> 	Holger

Holger, I am not understanding your intent to close this list. It
serves a very useful purpose to direct debian-user venting and stuff
_away_ from d-u.


You then post these follow ups:

> Current follow-ups:
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/d-community-offtopic/2014-June/000644.html

This is Ralph's explanation to you, that he was trying to spend
(minimum) effort to make sure others on offtopic don't mistake the
fake Jerry post for the real Jerry.

Again, is there something in the COC which says that if you point out
someone is a likely a troll and/ or most likely faking somebody else's
identity, then you have to go to even more lengths to point out other
problems with that person's email (which said email is self-evidently
a bunch of shit anyway)???

Seriously?


> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/d-community-offtopic/2014-June/000645.html

This was a spelling mistake correction. I abhor them normally, but
forgive them on d-c-ooftopic.


On 6/8/14, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf at alice-dsl.net> wrote:
> Btw. Holger, thank you that the blame now is on me. I didn't flame at
> Debian user, I tried to help Horatio, when it wasn't clear that he was
> trolling. Please blame the people who contributed to the flame war
> instead of me.

I wholeheartedly sharing Ralph's position here.

It seems to me Holger, that (I have not read the COC)
that the Debian COC is being interpreted to say that
anyone who comments in response to a troll (even if
they are trying to be useful in a small way) must now
gush out empathy for the victims and sternly denounce
the trolls and those who who responded in

  The Wrong Way (TM) (C) (R).


> On 8 June 2014 22:10, Ric Moore <wayward4now at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 06/08/2014 04:50 PM, Holger Levsen wrote:
>>> On Sonntag, 8. Juni 2014, Ric Moore wrote:
>>>> You SURE you got that right??
>>>
>>> yes.
>>
>> In Your Humble Opinion, just how should an OT list behave?
>> Inquiring minds want to know. And, is this the real Holger Levsen?
>> Someone who knows him please check. Ric

Thank you Ric, I 111% support you on this re the OT list.


On 6/9/14, Terence <terence.john at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, All,

Hi Terence, please bottom post, even on d-c-offtopic at ...

<shit, am I violating the COC by suggesting to bottom
post, and not serenely referring the poster directly to
the COC?? I haven't read the COC so I don't know...>


> If the original troll is still watching the list, he must be wetting
> himself laughing at the effects he has had.
>
> Please, let us get back to what passes for normal here! : )
>
> Terence

Very true. The problem is, we have some all powerful and godly
list masters (godly because they can do no wrong of course)
(godly powerful presumably also who are debian developers),
proclaiming to us that Ralph, by pointing out that 'someone' who
posted to this list for the first time was most likely an impersonator
(which could well be useful to others subscribed to this list but
not subscribed to d-u), that Ralph is somehow out of line, and
breaking the Debian COC?!!? Wtf?!

Well it sounds to me like the Debian COC has got 'little man'
syndrome.

Our predictions of the effects of a Debian COC are coming true,
only _much_ quicker than I thought.

So the evidence is this may be a speedy learning process for
the Debian "community" (whatever the firetruck that is). And a
speedy process is about the best that could be hoped for,
I guess.

Bring on the COCs!!
Teachin' all us dis-enfranchised peasant's on debian-user and
heathens on d-c-offtopic all a lesson y'all!

All bow before the power!

(Don't get me wrong, I'd like to be a DD, and for the right reasons
too - I didn't quite finish my own application about 18 years ago
because life caught up with me and another developer (with my
consent) ended up packaging the package I wanted packaged at
the time - but seriously, a 'community' in this context, of
debian-users@ and d-c-offtopic@ mailing lists, includes yes,
you guessed it, the users.)

A COC that allows for action of sanctioning individuals (or
threatening the sanction, eg such as threat of this entire ot list
being shut down as a result of Ralph's pointing out of a most
likely troll impersonator) is a COC allowing action pursuant to
emotional grounds, non-rational grounds, indeterminate grounds,
grounds of shifting sands, grounds which we cannot know until
the SS comes in and points a gun to our head and says "your
measely d-community-offtopic life^^^^list is over, now!"

Please, think of the children - they may be subscribed!


Peace all,
Zenaan