[gopher] Need suggestions regarding proposed Gopher History Archive contract
Bradley D. Thornton
Bradley at NorthTech.US
Thu Apr 12 19:43:47 UTC 2012
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On 04/11/2012 12:48 PM, John Goerzen wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I have been in contact with Stanford University regarding placing a copy
> of my Gopherspace crawl from a few years ago over there. I have
> attached the document they want me to sign, and below you can see some
> of the concerns I raised with them about it. I am not a lawyer and
> would appreciate any advice.
<snip>
Hi Susan,
Please accept my apologies for not getting back to you sooner, but
considering that I am not a laywer, a lot of what you asked me to sign
off on didn't make enough sense to this layperson to feel comfortable
signing.
So here's what I can offer you. Please accept this letter as my
invitation for you to use, store, and make publicly freely available, at
your option, any and/or all of the so-called data collection in
question, under the terms of the Creative Commons License, except where
prior copyright or license would not permit.
Thanks,
John
</snip>
Something like that, perhaps?
>
> -- John
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at ibiblio.org
> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 15:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Susan L Rojo <srojo at stanford.edu>
> To: John Goerzen <jgoerzen at complete.org>
>
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thank you for the thoughtful response. Your points regarding the
> physical/digital issue are well taken and you are not the first to raise
> them. We are slowly making changes to reflect this issue but at this
> point the deed modified as it is should suffice for our purposes. Let me
> clarify points below.
>
> I am uncertain that I can represent that I am the owner of this data.
> We are declaring you the owner of the collection, not necessarily the
> owner from a content or copyright sense. Similarly, if you were donating
> your collection of Beatles memorabilia, we know you aren't the copyright
> holder or the only one to own a pair of Mickey ears.
>
> Could I simply sign something authorizing Stanford to archive, preserve,
> etc. the collection, so far as I have the power to do?
> The Deed is the "simple" sign over for Stanford. We need to show the
> provenance of the collection and the deed is the way we do that. It has
> more legalese than is necessary for your collection but is our mechanism
> for starting the process. You aren't taking responsibility for every bit
> of data included and due to the nature of the collection Stanford
> understands that you did not create the data you have curated.
>
> If Stanford intends to use its ownership of the material to remove the
> ability of others to access it through other means, this is not an
> overall benefit to the community.
>
> In no way would Stanford try to stop others from using the data. The
> point of Stanford having a copy is to be sure a copy is saved "forever"
> for use specifically by students and faculty and also by the general
> population. Clause 5 clarifies that at this point Stanford is committing
> to preserving the data but will not be able to provide access to it
> until the point that it has been "processed." Some people expect that
> they give a donation to Stanford and can find it in the library catalog
> a week or two later. It takes longer than that and Stanford wants to be
> sure the donor understands this. In the case of the Gopher collection,
> there are multiple sources for access and this isn't an issue. We are
> working on an access mechanism for our digital repository but that is
> likely some time off.
>
>
> I hope I have addressed your concerns and that you are willing to move
> forward. I don't really have flexibility for changing the document more
> than I have to account for the nature of the collection. It is more of a
> formality in this case since, like you said, the data is readily
> available on the internet. It just happens to be a formality I have to
> follow.
>
> Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.
>
>
> Best,
>
> ~Susan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen at complete.org>
> *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo at stanford.edu>
> *Sent: *Monday, April 2, 2012 12:11:48 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at ibiblio.org
>
> Hi Susan,
>
> Thank you for re-sending. The document made it this time.
>
> I have reviewed it. I would be quite pleased to see this collection
> housed at Stanford. I hope the material can be preserved with the best
> possible access for everyone.
>
> The agreement, however, appears tailored to physical (non-digital)
> items, and as such I still have the following concerns:
>
> 1. I am uncertain that I can represent that I am the owner of this data.
> 1. I certainly collected it via a gopher crawl. As such,
> perhaps one could state that I am indeed the owner of the
> collection as a whole; however, for something so easily
> copied across the Internet, this language strikes me as
> regressive and quite possibly inaccurate. Stanford
> obviously would have an interest in maintaining it; could I
> simply sign something authorizing Stanford to archive,
> preserve, etc. the collection, so far as I have the power to do?
> 2. The combination of clause 2 and 5 also concerns me. As this data
> is already generally available to researchers on the Internet, if
> Stanford intends to use its ownership of the material to remove
> the ability of others to access it through other means, this is
> not an overall benefit to the community.
>
> I do not know what degree of flexibility you have in these matters. I
> would suggest, incidentally, that these questions are likely to arise
> with increasing frequency in the future, as more and more artifacts of
> historic interest are digital-only. Would you like to proceed further?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- John
>
>
> On 03/30/2012 04:44 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Not sure what that glitch was but try the attached.
>
> Best,
> ~Susan
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen at complete.org>
> *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo at stanford.edu>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:18:25 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at ibiblio.org
>
> Hi Susan,
>
> The attachment on this (and all the other messages you sent) didn't
> make it through - it was present but empty. Can you double-check
> and try resending?
>
> -- John
>
> On 03/14/2012 05:50 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Attached and ready for your review is the Deed of Gift for
> yourGopher collection. If you have any questions, please let me
> know. Otherwise, please print out two copies, sign both and
> return them to me at the address in my signature.
>
> I have confirmed that we can transfer the data from the UNC site
> as you suggested.
>
> Thank you again for your patience and your willingness to work
> with us.
>
> Best,
> ~Susan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen at complete.org>
> *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo at stanford.edu>
> *Sent: *Friday, December 16, 2011 2:11:33 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at ibiblio.org
>
> Hi Susan,
>
> To answer your questions:
>
> 1) The easiest way to transfer the data to Stanford would
> probably be for someone there to simply download it from the UNC
> site.
>
> 2) I have no specific knowledge of data that should be
> restricted from view. However, having said that, this is a copy
> of data that was sitting out there on the Internet. It would be
> naive of me to attempt to give an authoritative answer to that
> question.
>
> 3) I do not own the copyright to most of these files, with a few
> exceptions. (Data from my own server is included.)
>
> 4) PO Box 393, Hesston, KS 67062. 620-367-2347.
>
> -- John
>
> On 12/15/2011 02:51 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thank you for letting me know.
>
> Below are a few questions I have to complete the deed of
> gift for review by my manager. Once he approves it, I will
> send it to you for your agreement or further discussion.
>
> How do you think we could best transfer the gopher data to
> Stanford?
>
> Do you think there is data in the collection that should be
> restricted from view for any reason?
>
> Do you own copyright to the files you will be donating?
>
> What is your address and phone (for the official document)?
>
> I also wanted to confirm that Stanford is planning to be a
> long term custodian of the collection but at this time will
> not be providing access to the data. This should be okay
> since the data can be accessed at UNC.
>
> Best,
> ~Susan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen at complete.org>
> *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo at stanford.edu>
> *Sent: *Friday, December 9, 2011 1:26:20 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at
> ibiblio.org
>
> Hi Susan,
>
> No problem. As far as I know, that is the only copy UNC is
> maintaining. It is part of their large permanent data
> collection.
>
> -- John
>
> On 12/08/2011 06:41 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
>
> So sorry for not seeing this earlier and sending the
> follow up message!
>
> I appreciate your response and would like to pursue
> this. Do you know if UNC is keeping a copy somewhere in
> addition to the website you sent below?
>
> Best,
> ~Susan
> PS. I'll be back in the office on Tuesday so may not
> respond until then.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen at complete.org>
> *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo at stanford.edu>
> *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2011 7:04:14 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at
> ibiblio.org
>
> Hi Susan,
>
> Thank you for following up with me. Since we last
> chatted, I found a home for the material at the
> University of North Carolina's iBiblio project. The
> data lives here:
>
>
> http://torrent.ibiblio.org/doc/internet-gopher-archive-2007/181
>
>
> http://torrent.ibiblio.org/doc/quux-org-gopher-mirror-collection-2006/182
>
> I would be happy to have a copy at Stanford as well, but
> I am not sure if it is a good fit; a deed of gift is
> perhaps hard to apply to this kind of material, which
> can be simply copied at will. If you want to pursue it,
> I'm open to that; but at the same time, given its home
> at UNC, I'm OK with just leaving it there.
>
> -- John
>
> On 12/02/2011 06:35 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> My desk has cleared a bit and I am wondering (once
> again) if you are interested in donating your
> collection of Gopher materials to Stanford. If so, I
> will send you a few questions about the collection,
> draft a deed of gift for you to review, and then get
> the files transferred to Stanford.
>
> Please let me know if you are interested.
>
> Best,
> ~Susan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen at complete.org>
> *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo at stanford.edu>
> *Sent: *Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:41:48 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived
> at ibiblio.org
>
> On 08/11/2010 06:44 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
> > Hi John,
> > Congratulations on having your collection hosted by
> > http://torrent.ibiblio.org. I wanted to check in
> to see if you are still
> > interested in having it preserved at Stanford as
> well.
> >
> > Best,
> > ~Susan
>
> Hi Susan,
>
> Yes, I am still interested in having it at Stanford
> too, if that's still
> on the table on your end.
>
> -- John
>
>
> -- Susan Rojo
> Manager, Digital Media and Collections Projects
> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
> Stanford University Libraries
> Stanford CA 94305-6004
> AKA Mollie Mavendorf in SL
> @digiarchivist
> 650.721.2752
> srojo at stanford.edu
>
>
>
>
> -- Susan Rojo
> Manager, Digital Media and Collections Projects
> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
> Stanford University Libraries
> Stanford CA 94305-6004
> AKA Mollie Mavendorf in SL
> @digiarchivist
> 650.721.2752
> srojo at stanford.edu
>
>
>
>
> -- Susan Rojo
> Manager, Digital Media and Collections Projects
> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
> Stanford University Libraries
> Stanford CA 94305-6004
> AKA Mollie Mavendorf in SL
> @digiarchivist
> 650.721.2752
> srojo at stanford.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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- --
Bradley D. Thornton
Manager Network Services
NorthTech Computer
TEL: +1.310.388.9469 (US)
TEL: +44.203.318.2755 (UK)
TEL: +41.43.508.05.10 (CH)
http://NorthTech.US
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