[Pkg-ime-devel] Re: Debian m17n method under X with UTF-8

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,

On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 12:33:04PM +0800, Arne G=C3=B6tje (=E9=AB=98=E7=9B=
=9B=E8=8F=AF) wrote:
> On Sunday 17 October 2004 22:18, you wrote:
> Ah, ok, I didn't know you are involved in the SCIM packages... :)

Except skim, They are packaged now.  (Ming seemed to be slow so I did
some of the easy ones with help from others and finished the rest.
Maybe, he also has problem contacting me.)

> erm... if any windowmanager related application skips Xsession, I=20
> consider it to be broken. I personally have made a file=20
> in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ as I want to have my settings system wide. :)=20

It does not skip technically, but activating .xsession will be
incompatible with starting gnome session from GDM menu.  It is $1 being
null string or "gnome" when starting Xsession while .xsesssion exist.

> But that's because I'm the only user on my machine.
> I'm using KDE 3.3.0 by the way.
>=20
> >   deb http://people.debian.org/~osamu/package/ ./

The packages here now have  scim series and m17n-env

> Maybe we can discuss this m17n issue and exchange some experience, as=20
> I'm also fed up with the current limitations... :)

Yes.

> > Also post-1.0 version of SCIM needs to be packaged with scim-uim and
> > others. It is on-going task. If you can help, please drop me a
> > personal mail.   (I may drop experimental compile of SCIM there soon,
> > too.)

As I said, it has been done.

> Maybe I can. Depends on what needs to be done. :)
> BTW: I cannot send you mails directly, because your spamfilter rejects=20
> it. This SPF crap doesn't work with forwarding accounts. I complains=20
> that master.debian.org is not the correct mailserver for my sender=20
> address, which is correct. What about using greylisting instead?

Since I use small vost ISP, they are recently not so reliable for mail
connection.  I do not think SPF is used.  I set it up for my wifes DNS
set up but I myself do not even publish SPF for my hobby domain.  I hear
that my ISP is not filtering bnor using SPF.

I think it is simply the dead MTA with DOS by the SPAM.

> > > I don't need to care about locales any more, because SCIM doesn't
> > > care about locales, as long as you use any UTF-8 locale as default.
> >
> > Maybe you do not need it.  But there are many data in non-UTF-8
> > encodings and editor access to them is essential for the smooth
> > transition.
>=20
> I just tried it, I can use a terminal window with zh_TW.Big5 as LANG and=
=20
> LC_CTYPE and SCIM can insert the chinese chars correctly then. So, no=20
> problem here.

Yes, it is.  But SCIM does not start under fr_FR.UTF-8 unless you change
config.

> > ... well you need post-1.0 program sets for some features.  Some API
> > has changed.
>=20
> Yes, I use post-1.0...=20

Good.  Will you care to check my packaging.

> > > The SCIM approach is in my opinion the only useful one, since the
> > > locale should only reflect which language you prefer and in which
> > > country you are. It should have nothing to do with input methods,
> > > as long as your system is UTF-8.
>=20
> AFAIK, there are plans to develop a SCIM client for traditional=20
> console...

That is nice to hear.  At least for UIM which is sometimes used as
backend of SCIM, they now have UIM-FEP which can be used on console.

> > That is sometimes not an easy option for editing traditionally
> > encoded files.
>=20
> As for the console thing... which way do you normally use on a console=20
> to a) display CJK characters and b) to input them?

As for x-term console:

uxterm or gnome-terminal-emulator
kterm for Japanese

Setting LANG variable and=20
  x-terminal-emulator-m17n $LANG &
will get it for me.  THis is automated by the m17n-env package through
menu.  I still have to fine tune for Chinese and Korean traditinal
encodings for which xterm to be provided as the default.

> I found it impossible without any third party program, like some=20
> framebuffer consoles which are made for this purpose...

They exist.  I do not use them except installing Debian.  jfbterm is
used, AFAIK.  Input method available is uim-fep which I do not know the
status.

> But with the traditional console I cannot even display the chars=20
> correctly... So, I wonder why would any CJK user bother with that?=20

If you are talking linux console, you are right for kernel 2.6 or
earlier.

> All=20
> my friends and co-workers here in Taiwan use either a remote connection=
=20
> from a windoze machine and then have the windoze system handle the=20
> characters, or they use Xwindows with different windowmanagers and then=
=20
> a terminal window.

Theoretically, UIM infrastructure with jfbterm should create non-X
console but ... Anyway we have much more to do before this is attacked.
X window (Please do not use "s", that is MS system.) is important.  new
gnome-terminal-emulator is already capable to handle UTF-8 too.

> Do you have other experience?
>=20
> BTW: should we discuss this on the list or in private? :)

I CCed list where we are discussing IM issues.  Debian-devel seems too
noisy and no one there seems to have much need.