[Pkg-xfce-devel] Bug#760778: Bug#760778: xfce4-session: Please depend on gnome-orca

Yves-Alexis Perez corsac at debian.org
Sun Sep 7 20:23:34 UTC 2014

Control: tag -1 wontfix

On dim., 2014-09-07 at 21:53 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Yves-Alexis Perez, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 21:15:19 +0200, a écrit :
> > On dim., 2014-09-07 at 21:13 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > Well, for a blind user, it *is*!...
> > 
> > Sure, but not everyone's blind.
> And not everyone speaks all languages on earth, yet we install all
> language files by default, which really eats a lot of disk by default,
> just because we can't know when one will need it because a random user
> happens to need it.  That is the same with accessibility.

Last time I did an install, a debconf question was actually asking about
the locale.
> > I sympathise with a11y, but forcing gnome-orca on everyone won't
> > happen.
> Well, that is actually precisely our goal: to have gnome-orca installed
> on all systems, ready to be started in case one needs it.

Then it's unrelated to Xfce, and you want to include that in the base
system. I would still disagree, but that wouldn't be my call anyway.
> There is this very simple scenario: you welcome a blind guest at home,
> and he'd like to use the home computer. Currently, with XFCE, you'd
> click on "Enable assistive technologies", and unlog/relog. But nothing
> happens, no speech. You then have to connect to the Internet (who knows
> whether it works that day), look for why this is not working, eventually
> understand that you need to install the gnome-orca package, install it,
> etc. and at last it works.
> Another typical scenario is a public library with computers: there is
> very little hope that the user will manage to find out how to contact
> the sysadmin to get gnome-orca installed (and there is very little hope
> that the sysadmin will have already thought about installing it), so he
> will just not be able to use the computer at all.
> Yes, real accessibility means being available, ready to be enabled. Any
> barrier is really a killing pain for disabled people.

I'm sure you can find a lot of slightly convoluted scenarios. I'm sure
we can find a lot of them for a lot of packages, actually.
> > > Anyhow, what do you propose to fix the accessibility of XFCE? Adding
> > > the
> > > dependency to task-xfce-desktop? (Cc-ed)
> > 
> > That's exactly the same thing. Just create an a11y subtask or whatever,
> > bringing everything needed?
> That won't change the fact that we'll want to always install it by
> default (thus at least via a Recommends)

Again, I'd disagree with that, but still.
> Just to bring the figure in the discussion: from a base system,
> installing task-xfce-desktop without Orca uses 1596MiB. Adding Orca
> brings 1658MiB, so that's just a 3% increase.

That's not just a question of installed size. A lot of people want to
keep a somehow minimal system in term of disk, memory, CPU time, and
which doesn't get in their way. And some actually chose Xfce *for* that.

Even though it's quite hard to achieve these days, Xfce is designed to
be modular, and will (apparently) happily support gnome-orca if
installed. Fine.

In any case, the original bug was about adding dependency to
xfce4-session, and the answer is no (and the same applies to the xfce
task). If you want to add gnome-orca to the base system, I don't think
it's the right place.

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