[Shootout-list] Stuff

[Isaac Gouy]

--- Brent Fulgham <bfulg@pacbell.net> wrote:
> 
> --- Isaac Gouy <igouy2@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Ralph's posting to comp.lang.functional summarized
> > the inherent stupidity of large-scale cross-language
> > benchmarking:
> 
> Well .... stupid is as stupid does, I guess.
> 
> Should we all pack up our toys and go home since
> we live in an imperfect world?  :-)

I wasn't planning on it :-)


> > - compare language performance using different
> > algorithms and data structures; and then it's a 
> > comparison of algorithms and data structures and 
> > programming skill, not a comparison of language
> > performance.
> 
> I would find this argument more compelling if all
> tests were implemented by myself.  I think that the
> large number of contributors (and reviewers) to the
> shootout make this second argument less valid.  Sure,
> we will always (to some extent) be measuring the
> skill of the implementors, but by harnessing the
> network effects of the distributed work, we should
> minimize the amount of advantage one uber-hacker in
> ML gets over an average Joe using Java.
> 
> Even if the initial results skew towards the
> uber-hacker, eventually a Java expert will take a
> look (probably due to the uber-hacker flaming the
> Java people on comp.lang.java or someplace) and will
> propose a better solution.

We've seen this before, it turns into an arms race - language X looks
better as long as there are some obsessive folk who keep churning out
different algorithms until the rest stop and get on with their life. 


> This is why I think the shootout is fun!  The C++
> people harassed the Ada folks using the shootout
> benchmarks as 'evidence' of Ada's inferiority, and
> *blam* we got tons of great Ada implementations 
> (and some fixes to the Shootout build environment)
> provided by angry Ada hackers.  The shootout
> wins again!

The competition is just-as-fierce when the language communities line-up
on the same algorithm. 


> Let's not be so focused on perfection that we lose
> the point of the shootout.

iirc The point being to provide Java and C programmers with evidence
that good languages really do exist ;-)

imo Providing the instant excuse that the comparisons are invalid
because different algorithms are used doesn't help make the point.



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