Fwd: Re: Wayland in Debian / About Window Buttons and Menu Bars

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 2014-04-17 at 01:37 +0200, Linux-Fan wrote:
> Just got a message that the list server did not like the URL in my
> signature. I have amended the message to hopefully reach the list properly.
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Wayland in Debian / About Window Buttons and Menu Bars
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 01:29:04 +0200
> From: Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma at web.de>
> Organization: Ma_Sys.ma
> To: d-community-offtopic at lists.alioth.debian.org
> 
> On 04/16/2014 06:16 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > And a serious question, perhaps OT, but we never know.
> 
> The question directly asks for opinion and is not really Debian-related
> -- it could be asked on another Linux mailing list or even about Windows
> applications. Still I also consider it an interesting question.
> 
> > Do you like the trend to drop window title bars, resp. to drop window
> > buttons and to drop menu bars?
> 
> These are three different questions.
> 
> 1. IMO window title bars are useful to provide information like the
>    page title or opened file or the terminal name or such and are
>    therefore useful as long as they are not provided by a different
>    means (for example browser tabs or VIM status line or some people's
>    shell prompts)
> 2. The usefulness of window buttons depends on the window manager.
>    Currently, I use Spectrwm which offers no window buttons. Instead, I
>    close windows with [WIN]-[X], maximize windows with
>    [WIN]-[SHIFT]-[3], [WIN]-[3] (move window to workspace 3 and open
>    workspace 3) or [WIN]-[SPACE] (cycle layout) and minimize windows
>    using [WIN]-[W]. As you can see, graphical buttons are not required.
> 3. Concerning the menu bars. Although I try to avoid complex graphical
>    applications more and more, I still use some, for example Iceweasel,
>    Icedove, Libreoffice and JEdit. Menus make the large set of these
>    programs' features available which is why I consider them useful.
>    Differently worded: Dropping menu bars from complex and graphical
>    applications is *bad* IMHO.
> 
> > www.another-bloated-desktop-conspiracy-question-mark.neverneverland
> 
> :) From my point of view an OT list is OK for such questions.

:)

Btw. I don't think it's a conspiracy, but a step into the wrong
direction. Assumed we use displays and not braille, then for some needs
we want to have at least menu and tool bars, e.g. for pro-audio usage.

Wayland seems to be a step to drop WMs for the DEs and to open the doors
to break work-flows for special needs. The majority seems to like what
current gedit, gnome calculator etc. from upstream do (not) provide. No
title, no menu and no tool bars. I dislike this step into the wrong
direction.